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3CTE Seemles torque monster mod

Discussion in 'Performance Modifications' started by Vorenus, 16 February 2008.

  1. Vorenus

    Vorenus Administrator

    Following thread has been brought to this forum from the old .ORG forum. ClintJ is more than happy for this to happen and hopes, as I do, that content like this helps other users.

    I was reading something on the net again [​IMG] about engine losses and why the diesel engine is so efficient.
    The diesel engine is normally non throttle bodied. The engines are idle adjusted by fuel alone. Im sure we all know that one so lets move on.
    Having a throttle plate causes pumping loses on an engine meaning that a vacuum created behind the plate adds resistance to the engines revolutions and try to slow it down.....
    So I decided to embark on a throttle plate removal to my van.
    I had to change my cranckcase breather setup but the whole process took just under 2hrs including 2 X 10min drives and some minor boost adjustments.
    And like I said the result gives a seemless increase in torque as there is no throttle in the way to slow down the air.
    I used very little throttle and the van moves away nicer than before.

    My EGR port on the inlet manifold is blocked, so the EGR is the only reason that I can think of as to why our engines have a throttle plate.

    SO to do the mod requires that you have blanked the egr port.
    Remove your throttle body
    Unscrew the 2 phillips head screws hold the plate in.
    Rotate the throttle to full and slide the plate out.
    Clean up all the muck and put back together.
    Takes it for a spin and post your findings..
    If you have problems with the 2 phillips head screws the you can drill them out like I did.
    Im luckier than most as I have about 3 spares floating around so I could do a spare first then mount it up.

    This mod should also increase fuel economy due to the restriction being removed..
    My van isnt standard so a standard 3CTE will be very torquey with very slight throttle input....

    Let us know how you go!

    Clint


    I have my original out. Will take some pics for the tutorial.
    Its not that hard. Anybody who has ever taken there engine cover off before should be able to do this one standing on there head!
    Clint


    Here is an example of a bleed valve.
    http://cgi.ebay.com.au/JJR-In-Cabin-Boost-Controller-In-Red_W0QQitemZ370002711625QQihZ024QQcategoryZ130663QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    If the wastegate operates at 9psi and you want to run 15psi then bleeding off 6psi will mean that the turbo now has to produce 15psi to match the leak and open the wastegate.

    Clint


    The 3CT is already throtle bodyless. It has a mechanical pump and doesnt need it and apparently the electronic version doesnt need it. [​IMG]

    Clint

    I removed the throttle body from mine and found that the plate was unsurprisingly caked in black muck. Interestingly there was eight drilled holes in the plate which by the looks of them are non standard so obviously some one has done this in the past. Once i upload pictures I will post one here.

    Vorenus
     
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  3. Vorenus

    Vorenus Administrator

    ......continued

    Okay uploaded my images so here goes. The first one shows the throttle plate. I found that someone seems to have drilled eight holes in the plate as the finish of the holes is rough which one would not expect with an OE item. Did you find this with yours ClintJ?


    [​IMG]

    The following image is not too clear as it was washed out with the flash but is shows the air temperature sensor coated in black muck like the rest of the intake system


    [​IMG]

    This last image was taken looking into the inlet manifold on the cylinder head. You can see the black muck and rough deposits lining the inside of it


    [​IMG]

    It started to get dark and really cold so I stopped for the night as doing this outside. Going to clean the parts up, remove the throttle plate and put it back together in the morning. Will let you know how it goes.

    Vorenus
     
  4. Vorenus

    Vorenus Administrator

    ............continued

    Yep those 8 holes are there from toyota to help enough air flow through for idle. The plate does create a small vaccuum behind it but nothing like a petrol motor.

    As for the oil/moss coating left behind, how could one emagine this being very efficient at flowing air through there???
    Great job at posting the pics up Vorenus.
    I think from there that its obvious on how to get the plate out.


    Clint

    I've a load more images for the whole removal, and i will get some more in the morning with the stuff all cleaned up and ready to go back. I was thinking of starting this thread on the new forum so people could follow it from there.


    Did you notice what appears to be rough edge from drilling of the holes on the intercooler side of the throttle plate? I cleaned mine up and yes, the holes are original ones and it was the crud from the inlet manifold that had seeped through the holes making the rough appearance.


    Can't wait to get it back together. Having to drill out screws as they are solid, soft metal and even a correct fitting screwdriver wrecks the heads. Must be fitted with thread fixer.

    Vorenus


    The last thing toyota needed was for a screw to come out of it as the clearance on these engines are minimal so thats why the screws are so hard to get out. I didnt drill all the way through the screw. Once I had enough to pull the plate out then I left the rest in and just filed the stubs down on the backside. Caution must be take in choosing your drill bit size. To big and the bit can move off center and you could take out the shaft.


    Also Im just on my first tank since perfoming this mod and really want see what the outcome is in terms of fuel economy. Its great to have Vorenus back us up to prove that it works just as well on another van but let us check that this doesnt turn it into a gas guzzling monster first.

    Vorenus I have spare throttle bodies and will happily replace yours if mileage is thrown right out of whack.


    Clint

    LOL, thanks.

    I have done some research on the old 'net' and it seems a common thing to remove the plate AFTER blanking off EGR. Its only there so the EGR can work properly so once i get this back together and take it for a drive I can let you know.

    Vorenus

    Well I got it all back together this morning and have been driving around doing the Christmas shopping for most of the day.


    Anyway immediate impressions are that its much smoother and quieter on acceleration. On the open roads going above the 2000rpm sees the power 'lift' significantly and the bus takes off much stronger. Hit 2500rpm and she just goes, pulling much stronger than ever. It never really did this before. Around the town power delivery is more, how can i say, flowing in and out. What I mean is you press the pedal and the bus picks up in response, you back off and she slows down smoothly, no more sort of momentary 'pause' before anything actually happens. Will need to do a weeks worth of driving to see if the fuel is affected in any way. Probably is because I am now enjoying pushing the old bus, rather than being gentle on her.



    FWIW I removed the inlet manifold and degreased and cleaned it out. I also removed the throttle plate and fitting screws by drilling right through with a 4mm drill bit. I also degreased and cleaned out the elbow assembly before the throttle plate, including cleaning the air temp sensor which was caked in oil and crud. So maybe these factors all contribute to the new impression, not sure.

    Vorenus


    I got the exact same feeling. The cleanup of all the parts it will be hard to say but there has to be an improvement from the clean air passageways. Mileage isnt looking to bad on mine, the misus has be driving the most but it should see better mileage than before. Part of the seat of the pants improvement comes from the turbo being able to respond to the extra airflow with the restriction removed.. I watched my boost gauge and how smooth it transitions up and down in response to small throttle increments, where as before to get my larger turbo running required more throtle input to open up the plate more.

    This is looking like a good mod with no real side effects.

    Clint


    I have some at home. I will look them out and post on here later.

    Vorenus
     
  5. Vorenus

    Vorenus Administrator

    ..................continued

    Here are the photo's from the strip down. Hope they help identify the throttle body location.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Vorenus
     
  6. Vorenus

    Vorenus Administrator

    ...............continued

     
  7. djdigitald

    djdigitald Archived User

    I myself an not new to tuning mechanical diesels. This was my Mondeo MK2 TD that is 89bhp as standard and was running at 130bhp.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    It had the following engine modifications: -

    BK Racing large cone filter with 2 cold air feeds, and Pipercross cold air feed extension.
    Pre-boost Fuelling (idling) advanced - (this makes the car a lot quicker at low revs from dead before the turbo kicks in).
    Dawes Device boost controller.
    Front intercooler conversion consisting of several pieces of Samco hosing, bracketry, steel pipe, Escort RS turbo charge carrier (polished and modified to fit), large Saab 9000 intercooler.
    Custom made Collins twin piston dump valve with Spec-R box, electronic controller, EGR solenoid, micro switch and Samco hosing.
    Throttle mechanism shock absorber removed for easier revving.
    Braided hoses around fuel pump, turbo and boost controller.
    Twin exit stainless steel Powerflow exhaust (cat-back) custom cut into rear bumper.
    Silver braided pipe covers to hoses etc

    I have to admit the boost controller and SAAB FMIC bad the world of difference which enabled me to run at 19psi instead of the standard 15psi. Like i said the above changes increase to bhp by 40 and increased the torque as well. Throttle response was much better and there was next to no lag either.
     
  8. mr mince

    mr mince Area Rep

    Still haven't got round to doing this, will do it one day, would love a little extra kick to the bus:w00t2:
     
  9. SNAKEYES

    SNAKEYES Archived User

    Still haven't got round to doing this, will do it one day, would love a little extra kick to the bus:w00t2:
    So you can be pulled by the police again for being a proper boyracer:w00t2:
     
  10. mr mince

    mr mince Area Rep

    So you can be pulled by the police again for being a proper boyracer:w00t2:
    Might as well get done properly:w00t2:On second thoughts, I'm already at 8 points (from clean 2 years ago) on my licence since getting this bus I probably shouldn't even fix my turbo never mind modding anything :w00t2:
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. kdam36

    kdam36 Archived User

    damn good post.......looks like i`l be stripping my inlet manifold appart very soon !
     
  12. kdam36

    kdam36 Archived User

    just a thought................ does anyone know why the butterfly valve was put in for in the first place if the 3ct dusnt have one?? what can the possible reasons be??
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. owenmall

    owenmall Forum User

    just a thought................ does anyone know why the butterfly valve was put in for in the first place if the 3ct dusnt have one?? what can the possible reasons be??
    Or is there a hidden plate somewhere that we can play with too.........:doh:..........:sofa::sofa::doh:
     
  14. Vorenus

    Vorenus Administrator

    just a thought................ does anyone know why the butterfly valve was put in for in the first place if the 3ct dusnt have one?? what can the possible reasons be??
    On the 3C-TE its used to create a partial vaccuum in the inlet manifold so that the EGR system can work.
     
  15. owenmall

    owenmall Forum User

    On the 3C-TE its used to create a partial vaccuum in the inlet manifold so that the EGR system can work.
    we have an egr on the 3ct too???
     
  16. Vorenus

    Vorenus Administrator

    we have an egr on the 3ct too???
    Its mainly due to the difference in the way the diesel pumps work. 3CT is mechanical and governs fuel delivery itself. 3CTE has drive by wire, electronic controlled pump. It utilises sensors to provide feedback as to engine load and demand which feed to the ecu to control fuel delivery. The MAP sensor is the most important sensor and is sensitive to pressure/vacuum changes between ambient and the inlet manifold. To allow it to work correctly the throttle plate provides a partial vacuum at closed throttle to stop the MAP sensor 'seeing a leak' when the EGR is activated by the ECU. So its more a case I suppose of not enabling the EGR to work per say, but more to allow the EGR to work as it should without upsetting the running of the engine when it activates.
     
  17. kdam36

    kdam36 Archived User

    so if the egr is blocked off, then you dont need the butterfly anyway. and if it gives more torque, the take it off !
     
  18. kdam36

    kdam36 Archived User

    we have an egr on the 3ct too???
    yes you do so block it off and get better mpg..
     
  19. JJ

    JJ Archived User

    so please tell me this .......My EGR is blocked from both ends and the EGR vacuum pipe is blocked, Your telling me I can complety remove the butterfly plate from the throttle body and IT is better??? (well after cleaning it out got a spare you see) also could you tell me where the oil could be coming from as it is leaking like a tap around the inlet manifold .......JJ
     
  20. JJ

    JJ Archived User

    so please tell me this .......My EGR is blocked from both ends and the EGR vacuum pipe is blocked, Your telling me I can complety remove the butterfly plate from the throttle body and IT is better??? (well after cleaning it out got a spare you see) also could you tell me where the oil could be coming from as it is leaking like a tap around the inlet manifold .......JJ
    Forgot to say it was a 3C-TE engine
     
  21. kdam36

    kdam36 Archived User

    so please tell me this .......My EGR is blocked from both ends and the EGR vacuum pipe is blocked, Your telling me I can complety remove the butterfly plate from the throttle body and IT is better??? (well after cleaning it out got a spare you see) also could you tell me where the oil could be coming from as it is leaking like a tap around the inlet manifold .......JJ
    that must be a leaky seal cos the sump gasses are fed into the turbo intake to re-cycle them so you get kinda get oily air thats under pressure and that goes into the engine via the butterfly valve and if its got the tinyest of leaks,it will leak the oil out......